and it was preftory. i thought she did well. 27 years at doj, most of that time in nonpartisan positions. having said that sometimes normal can appear abnormal at time, it is abnormal for the president to cast espursiesse e over a witness but he does have free speech rights as all americans do but you typically let the process play out and speak freely. and as sean spicer said, we look forward to her testimony. she did well and the surrounding energy or attacks suggested a desire for political spin on it. >> we have a moment before we hand off to greta van susteren in our next broadcast. just briefly, what can the russians do if they have something on the national

security advisor, even if it's something that appears rather benign that appeared during phone conversations. why are you shaking your head? >> the russians can do massive amount of damage on any compromising information on any individual. this is why you go through the security clearance process, something as benign as missing a car payment they can snatch and pull your clearance. if you have pattern of too much debt or too many riches unexplained, they will take your life apart because we don't know whether someone is influencing you through these characteristics of your life. for a national security advisor of the united states to have made a phone conversation with a foreign nationals diplomate recorded by us and by the russians who have their own transcript, if you lie about that and it shows up in the media, the russians could always blackmail you with the correct version of the events. >> important to remember the stakes.

as we said, we witnessed something like three hours and 10 minutes of this live hearing, questioning not limited to just members of the subcommittee, you'll note, democrats sent extra guns, members of the larger committee off to the side who were allowed the courtesy of asking questions. greta van susteren, ready for "on the record," another day of so much focus on a hearing on capitol hill. >> indeed it is, brian. what intrigue it is because there's so many unanswered questions, so much going on. ken is standing by to help us, nbc news, of course and michael from "politico." let me go to ken. the big question i have, is the trump administration taking this seriously or feel they dodged a bullet or worried about this? >> i can't imagine they're not worried. sally yates was an incredibly compelling witness.

although we knew the story she would tell today. it was another a matter see her actually telling it and to explain in very careful very measured terms how seriously she treated this and went to the white house council in a special access room to have this conversation about mike flynn. although she didn't go into details she made clear she felt the american public had been lied to, that mike flynn had not been telling the truth and she expected action to be take and no action was taken until the story leaked 18 days later. >> she talked about 18 days later. i backed up earlier, according to the testimony today by nbc reporting is president obama, just day or two after the november 8 election to then president-elect donald trump in the oval office in a 90 minute discussion warned him about general michael flynn. then we have in december general michael flynn is having his conversation with the russian ambassador no doubt picked up by

intelligence and we don't know what he was saying about sanctions. then he lies to vice president pence and goes out and embarrasses himself and repeats something on the air untrue and sally yates tipping off the white house in a phone call making a second trip to the white house and then we get into the 18 days. how much more warning did the white house need they had a problem? >> you're exactly right. in many ways the most interesting thing we learned today was not in this hearing the exclusive report, president obama in that 90 minute oval office meeting, warned president trump not to hire mike flynn. at the time he wasn't talking about conversations with the russian ambassador because that hadn't happened yet. his general concern flynn was not suited for a job of this magnitude. the obama administration had fired flynn in charge of the intelligence agency in 2014. and to the series of meetings flynn has with the russian

ambassador and talked about obama sanctions levied against russia in this election interference campaign and told the vice president he didn't talk about those things and the vice president went on television and said, no, they didn't discuss the sanctions and sally yates knew that was true and if flynn was lying he was subject to being blackmailed by the russian because the russians knew he was lying. she felt compelled to go to the white house to tell them and she expected them to take immediate action and they didn't. >> i try to put the shoe on the other foot, what could be a logical explanation when president-elect trump was warned by president obama after the election, people were quite surprised he would be president of the united states and didn't have much of a transition team in place and overwhelming and the fact he is a general and we have expectations generals will be outstanding u.s. citizens

because of powers we entrust. then the situation in april, six months earlier he had gotten an a security clearance by the obama administration. guess they were lackadaisical about it. as time marches on, you have flynn and he's being deceitful to the vice president. i'm trying to think, the white house council probably thinks he's not a criminal defense lawyer, why would a general lie like this and why would he make this up? i'm trying to look at it from that viewpoint, they were overwhelmed. should we look at it that way or not? >> yeah. we can look at it that way. they may have said -- they may have wanted to believe -- sometimes people convince themselves of things they want to believe and maybe the feeling was, boy, maybe his memory was faulty. maybe he misspoke. i find it not terribly credible, but you're right, that mike flynn, in many ways had a very distinguished record.

you do hear a lot of people say they knew him a few years ago and found him very impressive and feel frankly he went a little bit off the rails and changed and was not as impressive and in over his head. sure, there were things you could point to there were things he had served with honor and distinction. it's hard to know, greta. when we saw sally yates today, as ken said, what a compelling witness she was. she and clapper side by side, i think represented everything that is noble and impressive about the national security establishment that has taken a beating recently from president trump. they really were nonpartisan, fact-based, not making wild accusations, very conservative in this non-political sense about what they were willing to say. when you see them making these arguments and yates in particular, i find that to the extent that the white house was relying on the theory that you raise there, i find it hard to sympathize with that going up

against sally yates who made such a compelling presentation and must have been very compelling in person in her meetings with white house officials. >> i totally agree her presentation was one very straightforward. seems like the white house dropped the ball enormously. i'm trying to figure out if the white house was sorry their head or willing to do anything to try to help their friend, general flynn and that's what we're getting to the bottom of. let me go to the two senators running this. senator lindsey graham from south carolina and senator why isous from the great state of -- what did you learn you didn't know? >> i thought clapper and yates were great witnesses and what she did going to the white house saying you have a problem on flynn because he could be compromised. she did absolutely the right

thing. from what i could tell, the white house to double, mr. mcgann took it seriously and 18 days the guy is fired. i learned there was an unmasking and member of congress during the 2016 election, the first time i ever heard of that. bottom line i thought sally yates did the right thing in terms of her role in this. >> senator whitehouse, 18 days seems long since he learned. you have to factor into it and i don't know who knew this and when. there was something squirrely, my turn, about general michael flynn's relationship with turkey, even that weird meeting, i don't know forever you know about it, former cia director woolsey said he walked in some meeting where flynn in october was trying to figure out some way to help turkey get a dissident out of the united states bypassi ining extraditio.

there were weird things. 18 days seems long to me. what about you? >> one of the things we learned, there was a second meeting with white house counsel and those two meetings allowed attorney yates to hammer home to white house this was an ongoing national security hazard to the united states of america. they had a national security advisor in a position where he could be compromised by the russians at a moment's notice, as far as anybody knew had already been compromised by the russians. you think of what took place over those opening days of those two meetings between her and the white house counsel, the fact 18 days goes by, during which he participates actively in all sorts of really delicate national security issues where russia is deeply invested, including a phone call between the president and vladamir putin and then it's only at the end of

that they finally get around to dismissing the man, something is not right in denmark. >> i guess, senator graham, 18dys is -- i think probably -- advantage of 2020 hindsight. >> what's the right time? >> because it's national security i would have put him on ice for 24 hours and parked him while we sorted it out, maybe not fired him, put him on ice. >> that might have been the better way. let me tell you this. he was fired. she did the right thing. she's incredibly credible. i thought flynn did compromise himself. we can argue lounng it took. another aspect of this story, somebody during this time period took classified information obtained from incidental collection and leaked to it the "washington post." you may like the outcome in this particular case. that process is bad for democracy. you cannot allow that to happen. you can't have political people if one was involved, to take

intelligence to leak to it the press and get an outcome we like. i want to know who did that. >> how do we reconcile that? that is against the law to leak classified information. had it not been leaked, not a justification for violating the law we would have a national security advisor, general flynn former acting attorney general yates' words, someone vulnerable to blackmail by russia. how do you reconcile all that? >> we know the trump white house is very responsive to what's being said about interest the media. you have to believe even though it took them 18 day, at some point they would have reacted to what sally yates had told them. they would have taken this national security risk seriously. the idea michael flynn would still be our national security advisor i think doesn't stand on much of a foundation but how much longer they would have dragged it out is an open

question and good one. >> very fair. >> let me challenge you -- go ahead, senator. >> from a republican point of view, i found miss yates to be incredibly credible. i thought what she did in terms of handling this, she didn't go to the press, she went to the white house. thi think mr. mcgann seemed to take it seriously and we will see. >> to be a devil's advocate to both of you, former attorney general yates, is that the last time she spoke up she got fired, when she spoke up about something. some people don't like the way she did that about the travel ban there were better ways to do it. she got fired when she did that. here's the other thing, president trump today tweeting that about the obama administration gave flynn the highest security clearance ever. you sesaying how they acted quickly in 18 days and some defense on general flynn laying the blame on the obama

administration. >> that didn't stand up in the hearing today. we heard from general clapper for these white house position there's a far higher level of scrutiny than general rotation of five year review. apparently, that was not done. we don't know that. but the white house cannot factually say that the pre-existing clearance for general flynn was adequate for this national security advisor position. that is just not true evidently. >> can i build on that? number one, what general flynn did that's got us all upset was after he was fired by the obama administration. so did the obama administration have reason to withdraw his security clearance while he was out campaigning for president trump? i can't say that they had enough evidence. as to vetting general flynn, general kelly said that he went through a very long process with

the white house, asked about foreign contacts, did he represent any foreign governments. obviously, that didn't work when it came to general flynn in the white house. you have to hold the white house accountable in my view for not properly vetting general flynn's contact with turkey and russia. >> wouldn't it have been instead of today president trump laying the blame on the obama administration in a tweet saying basically they gave him the clearance now we know there is a higher clearance he should have had subsequently instead the president tweeted today, please watch the hearing, we need to hear what former acting attorney general yates said. once in a while we get lied to in security clearances. that would have been a little better, would you agree? >> there might have been better but certain people on the left and the right are not going to do that. senator whitehouse and i tried to put something a hearing what did the russians actually do?

how can we stop them in the future and what kind of price should they pay. i'm very interested how the system works on gathering intelligence through incidental swainsd how unmasking work, thick that's potentially abused. i'm proud of what we did today. >> the president may have a pension for misdirection but i think senator graham's hearings have gone right down the middle of the road factually and very well supported the whole way through and we intend to continue doing that. >> where we are, we had yates speak, we heard from her and heard from the former cia director. we don't know who did the leaking. is that something you two will be pursuing? will there be more hearings on that? >> i don't know. i have to talk to senator whitehouse. what it want to know is how does unmasking work? what's the population that can request unmasking. do they share the information? how is the information distributed in our system. in terms of where we go next

with russia, i want to know was there a warrant on carter page? carter page, according to president trump was a campaign advisor. the press reported a fisa warrant was issued and somebody believed there was probable cause by his connections to russia. were those connections just him as an individual or connections of him as a campaign operative. i want to know that and still don't know the answer to that. >> one of the decisions senator graham and i made early on in this was to try to stay away from too much classified material because classified material means you can't talk about it any longer. part of our purpose here is what director clapper referred to in the hearings, this was a really useful hearing and bringing the american people along to understand what has taken place and what is at risk for taking place in future elections. we're going to be careful, i believe, about trying to get too much classified information. it can be like fly paper, once you're stuck to it, it's hard to

maneuver after you've been glued to the classified information and can no longer speak freely. >> one big overarching question. what will we do about russia? first to senator whitehouse? what do you want to see? >> i know senator graham will have strong ideas what tot do on offense. i will say on defense we need to do things like clean up our incorporation law, something i feel very strongly about so russians and other folks can't hide behind shell corporations with nobody able to find them. we're becoming in the united states of america the last haven for criminals who want to hide behind shell corporations as countries around the world including the eu clean up their act. we have specific things we can do to defend american democracy by making sure the public sees what's going on and who is behind the dark operations of people who want to influence politics.

>> senator graham, i have 30 seconds. go ahead on offense. >> sanction the hell out of putin and his inner circle. we haven't done enough in the energy circle and their personal finances. hit them hard and pass my bill that will hit putin and his inner circle hard for trying to undermine our election and democracy around the world. make him pay a price. >> you got your 30 seconds. >> my one piece, i want to say what a pleasure it is to see a republican and democrat working on this together so well. a good message to us all. thank you both. >> got a good chairman. >> thank you. bye-bye. a special programming note tomorrow, i'll be in new york for a live interview with condoleezza rice, former secretary of state and national security advisor. be here and watch it. still ahead, what did today's senate hearing expose? what our intelligence agents knew about the russian hack. we'll talk to the former director of the cia.

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we're back with former acting attorney general sally yates. she's breaking her silence. she was fired by president trump for refusing to defend his travel ban happening days after she said she warned the white house council then national security advisor michael flynn lied to the vice president. most stunning, that the russians knew flynn had lied to the vice president making him vulnerable to blackmail. >> we began our meeting telling him there had been press accounts of statements from the vice president and others that related conduct that mr. flynn had been involved in that we knew not to be the truth. we were concerned the american people had been misled about the underlying conduct and what general flynn had done. additionally, we weren't the only ones that knew all this. the russians also knew what

general flynn had done and the russians also knew general flynn had misled the vice president and others. that created a compromised situation, a situation where the national security advisor essentially could be blackmailed by the russians. i remember mr. mcgann asked me whether or not mr. flynn should be fired? i said that was not my call but thought it was critical we get this information to the white house. in part because the vice president was unknowingly making false statements to the public and because we believed general flynn was compromised with respect to the russians. to state the obvious you don't want your national security advisor compromised with the russians. >> in the hearing, still unanswered including whether there was any evidence the trump campaign actually colluded with the russians. >> miss yates, do you have any evidence, are you aware of any evidence that would suggest in the 2016 campaign anybody in the

trump campaign colluded with the russian government or intelligence services in an improper fashion? >> senator, my answer to that question would require me to reveal classified information so i can't answer that. >> well, i don't get that because he just said he issued the report and he said he doesn't know of any. so what would you know that's not in the report? >> if i may, are you asking me? >> her. >> i think director clapper also said he was unaware of the fbi counter-intelligence investigation. you asked me whether i was aware of any evidence of collusion and i declined to answer because answering would reveal classified information. i believe that's the same answer director comey gave to this committee when he was asked this question as well and he made clear and i'd like to make clear just because i say i can't answer it you should not draw from that an assumption that that means that the answer is

yes. >> john mclaughlin, former acting director of the cia. good evening, sir. >> hi, greta. >> explain to me something, is it in april of 2016, general flynn had his security clearance re-upped. sometime after the election he was named as national security advisor and second security clearance or upgraded one. how different was that second one? should he have revealed he was lobbying for turkey at that point? >> yes. that would be expected. i can tell you from having gone through white house personnel vetting, typically more intrusive and more extensive than you get for a primary clearance at the ts, cia level. >> once he passes it, what is done for the president of the united states? yes, he passed the security

clearance. i'm trying to figure out who is the top person that should have looked deeper and where the buck stops. >> we don't know anything publicly where that vet took place and we don't know what the president was told precisely. more important to me this hearing emphasized today, i was thinking of my own experience. i worked a fair amount in the counter-intelligence field on case, that is. had someone come to me and said that a senior official is vulnerable to blackmail by the russians and shown me evidence of that, it would have been a startling development and i would have looked at it and said i have a potential counter-intelligence case here. it would have raised the highest level of alarm you can have in the intelligence world, i think. >> if you were in the white house and learned that, how would you have handle that if sally yates brought to you? is 18 days a long time from

receiving the information and forcing a resignation or is that swift? >> no. i think that's a long time, i regret to say. if i were in the white house i certainly would have made the president aware of that right away and certainly the chief of staff and we would have had a huddle among senior officials to figure out what to do. hard for me to believe, given the nature of that, you have to put it up to one of three or four things. it's either incompetence or it's in experien inexperience or its very bad judgment, or we don't know this but it suggests if those others are not the reason, then some desire to conceal this. it's really quite a puzzle why that did not set off alarm bells more resoundingly than it did. >> one of the other issues which predated the election was his lobby work for interest is in

turkey. for some reason i'm fixated on the fact there was another report "wall street journal" interviewed cia director woolsey and said he walked into a discussion, he didn't know how far it was getting trying to get erdogan's enemy out of there without the extration process and to me sounds bizarre. the former director came on with me and i thought sort of walked it back a bit. i thought that peculiar. >> that's pretty strange. director woolsey is an attorney. i would trust his legal alarm bells when they're going off. >> it certainly was interesting. thank you very much for joining us, sir. >> glad to be with you, greta. >> sally yates blackmail testimony getting headlines but it was something former director of national intelligence james clapper said today that was fascinate, a big revelation.

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the resource certainty here has come out with a very strong statement as well as every, every major medical amnesty group from the -- >> nobody dies because they don't have access to healthcare. >> well, that did not take long. gop lawmakers who days ago voted to repeal obamacare and then had part in the rose garden at the white house already facing backlash back in their districts at town halls. congressman raul labrador you just saw trying to explain all hospitals are required by law to

treat patients in need of emergency care regardless of their ability to pay and the republican plan does not change that. key officials defending the republican healthcare bill on sunday's shows. >> your department's own studies have preexisting conditions. will they be able to afford the price set? >> absolutely. we think it will be more affordable. >> you don't think any will be hurt when you're taking $880 billion out of the system? >> no, i don't. the micromanagement of the medicaid by the government, the medicaid system isn't working. >> getting in the mix, former president obama making his first comments on the white house policy since leaving the white house on january 20. >> i hope current member of congress recall it actually doesn't take a lot of courage to aid those who are already powerful, already comfortable, already influential but it does require some courage to champion

the vulnerable and the sick and the in firmed. >> chairman of the american conservative union and ed rendell former governor of pennsylvania and chair of the democratic committee. this is reminiscent of 2010 democrats returned back to their districts talking about obamacare. i guess the thing i find particularly painful to me, everybody is so upset because health is so important yet the fact is that we aren't even sure what this bill will do and people haven't read it and we all have taken sides and declared either it's the worst thing or best thing and we have the american people so upset and justifiably so. what do we say? >> first, that lady had it right, she said every major medical organization, hospital, doctors, et cetera, have come out against it, obviously a more conservative bill than one 1700

american people approved of to get it more conservative for the tea party caucus. the one conservative fact that will kill them is it 8ing 800 some odd billion dollars out of medicaid and gives $700 billion of tax cuts to those earning more than $250,000 and corporations. that's the one unescapable fact they can't resolve. >> matt, i don't like the sound of that because i don't want any to go without care. numbers numbers in washington, mark twain used to talk about numbers. we have limited resources and it's so easy to paint the other side as trying to kill the other side. governor rendell and all those organizations may be dead right but the problem is, it's like everyone is so fired up and no one's really looking to solve, i don't think as much as to fight. >> when i talk to democrats in green rooms and off the record,

most admit there were fatal flaws in obamacare. you can see the trajectory was rising premiums and more insurance companies pulling out of the private market. that leaves us with one option, universal single payer universal healthcare a lot of liberals like, other folks are concerned. when people talk about people not being able to afford healthcare, remember the election a few short months ago, it was middle class voters who could no longer afford in the individual market to pay their healthcare premiums that actually turned against obamacare and voted for donald trump. actually, a big base of the democratic party is usually these working families and they turned against obamacare because they couldn't afford it and they're an important voice in this as well. >> governor, do you have any thoughts on how to resolve this? it really isn't good for us to draw the line in the sand.

for members of congress or house or senate on either side of the aisle get ripped like this. these are important issues. is it beyond repair? >> i don't think it is. i think in the senate, there's a chance, although the 13 senator this is a selected, no women, all white men, doesn't give you much confidence, i think in the senate there is a chance to come up with a bill that keeps the affordable care act, matt said fatal flaws, i'm not sure fatal flaws but fixes the things that need to be fixed and try work out some form of compromise. it can only be done in a bipartisan fashion. one fact matt said i need to correct. premiums in the five years before obamacare went up at a higher rate than premiums have in the five years after obamacare. >> the only thing i would -- >> go ahead. >> the only thing i would say to that are two things.

first of all, as a former governor, you ought to appreciate the fact one of the main focus of fixing obamacare is turning medicaid over to the states and allowing home to come up with their own plan, and second of all, on these insurance premium increases, it is this very idea you can't get the plan that you need, you have to get the plan that washington, d.c. has dictated that you need that has caused some of these problems. if we can go back to an idea you can get a catastrophic plan or plan that suits you, i think consumers will actually be more happy. >> i think that's a good suggestion, greta. you can work-around something. if we're going to take away essential benefits as a federal requirement and let healthcare companies offer plan phos-20-year-old woman that don't cover pregnancy, that's unacceptable. >> that's why maybe my idea is to get you two in a room. you guys won't fight. anyway, thank you both,

gentleman. >> give us a shot. >> i should. up ahead, the word "unmasking" came up over and over again today and james clapper had a fascinating revelation. also, horrific news at penn state, a hazing death, some charged with manslaughter. you will hear the chilling 911 call coming up. up ♪

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did either of you request the unmasking of mr. trump or associates or members of congress? >> yes. in one case, i did, that i can specifically recall but i can't discuss it any further than that. >> did you ever request unmasking mr. trump or his associates or any member of congress? >> no. >> two key moments from today's hearing centered on this question of unmasking. joining me is steve clemmons editor at large for "the atlantic" and michael crawly from "politico." this unmasking sensational one senator grassley was interested in and senator lindsey graham today. explain to the viewers why that's become so important. >> when the national security agency picks up intercepts of foreign officials they're watching or foreign targets and

u.s. citizens, the names of u.s. citizens are redacted. the last time we heard this much talk about unmasking was in the case of john bolton when he had been nominated to serve as u.n. ambassador and never confirmed because the national security agency and bush white house would not share the information about the 13 americans john bolton unmasked with the united states congress. this is u.s. government officials, white house officials lookingi looking to peek in what americans were in these transcripts the national security agency had. >> if i had a conversation with a russian ambassador and picked up as an intercept, russian ambassador kislyak and an american ambassador had a conversation and if granted that permission would have greta van susteren that's done that. i assume if they wanted to go further they could go further,

is that your understanding? >> yeah. the reason intelligence officials would do that if they feel like there were some risk or consequence they were trying to prevent, to protect the country's national security, it was essential to know the identity of the person unmasked. they are not doing it because they were curious or interesting. i know some trump supporters believe in the case of flynn he was unmasked out of malice to embarrass trump. what we heard from clapper in particular today the argument you have to do that occasionally out of necessity because you might have a national security risk. as yates noted sometimes the intercepts come with the name already unmasked by the national security agency organ that has collected the information in the first place. you can't assume the unmasking is being done further down the line. >> steve, last year, the year

2016, according to the numbers we have been provided 1,934 names were unmasked. i have no clue if that's a lot or if it's little, just a random number to me. 1,934 people were unmasked win 2016. what's your thought about that? >> it gives you a sense, i think, of the level of security attention. i'm speculate hearing. i don't know in fact they're talking about the concerns of this being a campaign related unmasking. i don't have the ability to judge that. in this age of looking at terror connections with american citizens and concerns around the united states it doesn't surprise me at all in this hyper vigilance we have greater communications capabilities between foreign agents trying to penetrate and work or seduce moles or sleeper cells in the united states that is not happening. we're looking at the case of

michael flynn or others they may have unmasked. there are other u.s. citizens not brand names part of this arena. the bolton case was just 13 names, very small. we're talking about a different era then very different than today where there's a lot more focus what's going on internationally between u.s. citizens and those abroad who may want to do bad things inside the united states. >> the question i have, with all this unmasking, when they're unmasked, what do they do with it? that's the more curious thing to me. coming up, the 911 tapes from the awful hazing death at penn state. what do they tell us about whether anyone failed to act. ♪ ♪

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well, it just happened, president trump's first response to the hearing comes from where else, on twitter. director clapper reiterated what everybody including the fake media already knows, there is no

evidence collusion with russia and trump. president also tweeted "sally yates made the fake media extremely unhappy" she said nothing but old news. and ahead a tragic hazing death, fraternity facing manslaughter charges disturbing allegations. the latest on the investigation, you'll hear the call, next. ♪ ♪ you have access to the right information at the right moment. ♪ ♪ and when you filter out the noise, it's easy to turn your vision into action. ♪ ♪ it's your trade. e*trade. start trading today at etrade.com are made with smarttrack®igners material to precisely move your teeth to your best smile. see how invisalign® treatment can shape your smile up to 50% faster today at invisalign.com

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well, the death is absolutely horrendous, so

tragic, and the accusations deeply disturbing. 18 paternity brothers are charged with -- students are being arraigned all charges related to the death of timothy, he died in february following a hazing ritual involving heavy drinking. they posted video of him on social media and went 12 hours before calling police. here is part of the 911 call. >> we have a friend who's unconscious he hasn't moved, he has cold extriemties. >> was there any alcohol involved, do you know? >> the district attorney describing what allegedly happened. >> they made the pledges, soon to be brothers, run from station to station and drink enormous amounts of alcohol. these brothers gathered around timothy where he -- some of them described where he looked dead.

what to do with a head injury? >> with me, msnbc former prosecutor katie, your thoughts on this if you were the prosecutor on the case tonight. >> you heard the district attorney use the term brothers, i'm not sure if you had family like this that you would need any enemies. i want everybody to understand, greta, this young man fell down the stairs. he had pounded four to five drinks in two minutes at different places. he then got up after they put him on a couch and saw his injuries, he fell down another four times then in the morning after they had not called 911, he fell down the stairs again and then he laid there for hours until they finally figured that maybe it was time to call 911. and then they tried to cover it up. it's disgusting. i hope they hope get the max in pennsylvania which is five years for involuntary manslaughter. they should get consecutive

sentencing. he was 19 years old and now he's dead. there's no excuse. there's literally no excuse to be made by this case. >> all right. all these young men in this fraternity are treated as adults. is there any sort of -- i mean, in the old days they had the universities had a house mother at these fraternity place. but is there any sort of responsibility that to the parents, anybody, you know, this hazing probably isn't a big secret. >> this particular fraternity had a history of inappropriate conduct, elicit drugs, excessive alcohol. they were already in a lot of trouble and i think that's why the d.a. has charged the fraternity itself with having committed a crime. now, when you ask if there was an r.a. or maybe like a frat mom, no, there wasn't they had inside the fraternity house, security camera videos. they actually had security

camera that was running at the time doing internal surveillance that's part of the reason that they saw they stood around this young man and looked at him while he laid on the couch for hours and they did nothing to help him. that's why that conduct is the reason why they're facing criminal charges today. >> well, you know, every time one of these horrible, you know, tragedy crimes, it's a combination of both tonight, everyone is introspective for the couch and they think about what they should do. i'm sure this fraternity is kicked off campus. >> this happened back on february 2nd. and then on march 30th, this fraternity was permanently ban. penn state, as we know, sadly, has a history of having problems. they haven't been able to get it together. and so now it's time for a day of reckoning, now, i think. >> what a heart break for the parents and friends of this college student. thank you. thanks for watching. we'll see you back tomorrow.

we have a special guest tomorrow. condoleezza rice set tomorrow night, if you can't watch live, get your dvr, set it to watch the show. follow me on twitter. check out my facebook page. we had a contest today, you might have missed it today at facebook. "hardball" starts right now. sally yates, let's play hardball. good evening, i'm chris in washington. sally yates testified that the former national security adviser, michael flynn, was compromised in regards to the russians when he misled the vice president and the media about his conversations with the russian ambassador to the u.s. yates, who was fired by the trump administration, said flynn made himself vulnerable to blackmail. >> the